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Monday, March 22, 2010

Jud Logan- Hammer Strength


As Leif posted a Bondarchuk interview, here is a post that Jud Logan posted on "The Ring" website a few years ago about the Bondarchuk influence on his training. I thought it was interesting and helpful and saved it. Jud, as most of you know is one of our most successful American Hammer athletes. Like most American Hammer throwers, he picked up the hammer in college and learned from experience, seeking input from the best sources he could find. He relied on strength a great deal to offset technical deficiencies as he learned. He is now a very successful coach who develops American throwers. He is well-known for taking walk-ons and molding All-Americans. He integrates strength workouts with throwing very successfully. Below is his post:

"Bondarchuk once gave me these numbers for 80+ meter success-
Snatch 300
Clean 400
F. Squat 500
B. Squat 600
I think the F. Squat would give most people trouble in this ratio.

I will show my age....but Paul Harvey use to say, "And now the Rest of the STORY"
1) First off, Coach B, after learning my weight room numbers,replied this is way strong enough to throw well over 80 meters. So the jist was, the 3-4-5-6 ratio was the high end of where "I" needed to be. Not something he was pontificating for his throwers to achieve 80+.
2) Glenn is right on by stating for the most part- evryone that has thrown 80 or better is very capable of those numbers- some lower (Sedyk), some pretty much right at (Koji/ Deal) and many exceeding (Myself, Tibor, Astapkovich, Abduvialiev, Haber, Kiss, Flax and many more.
3) Many great throwers made up for so called weight room short comings with other things they brought to the table- Nikulin (3.50 SLJ) Yuri Tamm (130k close grip Snatch) Koji and remarkable jumps and sprint times and most importantly years of high volumewith exacting Technique.
4) The strength aspect of my talk with Coach B was maybe 10 minutes of 2 hours- the rest revolved around Training Complexes- What balls and when- how far to throw in practice and many of things that he talks about in "Transfer of Training"- Which I own 2 copies, one for me with highlights and scribbles and one that I lend out to other coaches on my staff working with sprinters, jumpers and the like.
5) We talked about the hammer as a "system"- and pushing the ball with the right side and no left shoulder to seperate the axis or create the drag technique. He was very gracious.
6) I later flew to New Zealand to hear Bondarchuk again- this time with Yuri Sedyk in tow and had many training opportunities with Yuri. What I learned was that although he and Litivinov were only seperated by centimeters- they were way differnt in nervous system and styles- that day Sedyk trained at between 75-79 meters with the 16 with maybe one or two at 80- he replied that it was not uncommon for Litvinov to train at or near the World record with the 16 but his level of consistency caused many left sector fouls and stop and start throws. With Yuri- every throw of every ball looked the same.
So when I post numbers or ratios- it is NOT the lost secret to throwing far- I am just sharing info that helped me as an athlete a long the way. The same way Dave McKenzie and Peter Farmer worked with me to learn 4 turns. Countless hours with lance and Stewart Togher to perfect what body allowed me to do. Al Schoterman (1972 Olympian) whobelieved in me and kept me going after college when my Pr was only 64 meters. Harold Connoly, who was never to busy to "take a look" at film and give me input. But the bottom line for me was lifting after throwing was a reward I looked forward to- I embraced the weight room and it gave me attitude and confidence. I liked being strong and took pride in that aspect of training- I have much respect for those who throw farther than I did and most of them "weaker" and technically more proficient."
Good stuff.

2 comments:

  1. Good post, but I think the weight room numbers are the least important part of Jud's post. Like he said, this talk was just 10 minutes of 2 hours. The key to throwing far lies in the other 1:50 minutes and a throwers should be thinking outside the weight room just as much.

    Also, those numbers are quite high compared to what Dr. B has told me and published elsewhere. His book lists numbers along these lines for an 80-85m thrower: 120kg snatch, 160kg clean, and 250kg half squat.

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  2. Martin,
    I agree 100%. As Judd says, "So when I post numbers or ratios- it is NOT the lost secret to throwing far- I am just sharing info that helped me as an athlete a long the way." "the bottom line for me was lifting after throwing was a reward I looked forward to- I embraced the weight room and it gave me attitude and confidence. I liked being strong and took pride in that aspect of training- I have much respect for those who throw farther than I did and most of them "weaker" and technically more proficient."
    Thanks for your input.
    -Ollie Whaley

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